Opinion
Vaccination bill dismantles parents’ informed consent
Citizens are polarized by Bill SB277, requiring government schedules and mandatory vaccinations for all children in California public and private schools. Immunization rates are optimum. So, why do we need SB277?
SB277 removes the right of informed consent from California parents. It slid through the Senate Floor on a Democratic Party line, and paused briefly at the Assembly Health Committee Hearing June 9th, drawing over 5,000 people in protest to the Capitol stairs and hallways of Sacramento. Its next stop, this week, the Assembly Floor Vote.
If parents in California knew what was going on with SB277 they would be outraged!
The authors of this bill mislead the public and elected officials to quickly pass this bill, like manipulating last minute shifts of costs onto school districts, to strategically bypass Appropriations. Merck needs California. After California, it will spread nationwide. Parents need to know SB277 facts.
If there is any risk, there must be a choice. Senator Gaines testified that following vaccination, his sixth child experienced brain demyelination. Under Bill SB277, parents of vaccine-injured children are still required to vaccinate their other children. The National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986 protects Merck and other pharmaceutical companies from legal liability, transparency of ingredients, consequences of side effects, vaccine injury, and death. So, who then is liable for vaccine related injuries that will occur? Are school districts liable? Are lawmakers in the State of California liable? Who is liable?
California needs to allow Law AB2109 to continue succeeding. The Personal Belief Exemption rate dropped 20% since AB2109 became law 16 months ago. AB2109 “requires parents who request immunization exemptions to obtain signed documentation from a health professional that they have been informed of the benefits and risks of immunizations.” AB2109 raised “herd immunity” above the CDC’s recommended 92%. AB2109 has solved the problem. Senator Pan says SB277 will fix a problem that does not exist. So, why do we need bill SB277?
To vaccinate or not to vaccinate? That is not the question! This bill forces families out of California schools and forces them to home school, even for delaying one vaccination! This bill could force families out of California. SB277 strips religious freedom and ignores ethical objections of California parents. Tax dollars used to educate our children will be drained by settlements for vaccine related injuries. So, please remind me why we need this bill again?
Take action to preserve your rights, contact your Assembly Member and Governor Jerry Brown today and tell them you oppose SB277.
—
Ed’s Note: Stefanie Dumont is an Encinitas-based activist opposing mandatory vaccination.
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Thank you! Antivax logic is something special. vaccinatecalifornia.org/contact_your_reps 🙂
See SB277.org to learn more about what SB277. Say no to Vaccines.
You may be on to something there. I got my annual flu shot last year and have been feeling really autistic since then……
You’re an insensitive jerk for saying such a thing. Maybe your next flu shot won’t leave you with the same attitude.
Hey now. You’re kinda hurting my feelings there. How do you know that I didn’t get autism from a flu shot?
Your attitude clearly says you don’t care about hurting anyone’s feelings. Go mentally masturbate elsewhere.
Nice avatar, Troll. Is that an image of you or is it of one of your “enemies” that you stole?
Reported.
Now that is funny! The efforts of the anti-vaxx crowd are nothing short of attempted murder and yet your precious fee-fee’s need to be coddled. Such a special snowflake you are indeed.
So not injecting neurotoxins into kids is “attempted murder”? That’s funny.
What “neurotoxins” are you speaking of? As you well know, ANYTHING can be a toxin. Too much of water intake will kill you and one pear has more naturally occurring formaldehyde in it than the entire schedule of vaccines.
I don’t inject water or pears. But I was thinking more of the unsafe amounts of aluminum that have no business being injected into tiny bodies. Oh I know, you think breast milk has more aluminum than a single vaccine. I also don’t inject breast milk and babies get way more than one vaccine at each “well baby” visit.
If you have a credible source of information, I would love to review it.
I like to avoid known toxins where I can…especially since we are being bombarded with toxins everywhere.
My point is that “toxin” is a matter of degree. A little salt brings out the flavor in food, a pound of it at one time will kill you. Too little water and you will die, too much water is called dilutional hyponatremia and may also kill you.
Although I am sure you do not intend to insult a family who is dealing with an autistic child, who will remain a child all of their life, your answer is unkind, uneducated and mean spirited. Perhaps if you would take thirty minutes researching vaccine injuries, and not on the CDC website, you would realize that these pharmaceuticals have not been tested, that families the world are protesting their use without consent and you might just be wrong.
No. It is you who is unkind, uneducated and mean-spirited. Autism is a communication disorder only and is on a spectrum. Very few “remain a child all of their life.” The vast majority are functioning members of society.
Read again what you are writing and advocating: As if having a less than “perfect” child is worth endangering public
health. As if having autism is a fate worse than death. You and the rest of the anti-vax crowd would rather that their child risked death or permanent disability from a epidemic than autism. Way to
dehumanize those who have autism.
And, autism is not caused by vaccines. Google the study that went out in the last week about the link between increasing parental age and autism.
You clearly do not understand the spectrum that is autism.
Actually I do but do go on.
No you clearly don’t or else you would know that autism is medical and that self harm and poop smearing are not just “a communication disorder.”
Hey now! I was quite the artiste with my poop when I wore diapers. The art that I made on the walls was quite impressive! Did I just grow out of my autism then?
As for self-harm, does that include self-destructive behaviors such as refusing vaccines? Might want to get that checked……
You, Maddie Black, are a complete moron. No amount of explanation will work on you, because you clearly are so ignorant, you think you are utterly correct. That, or you are a Pharma troll.
Hey now! You are hurting my feelings there. Here’s a link for you: The recent measles outbreak was caused by substandard vaccine compliance, not lack of “healthy living.”
http://archpedi.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=2203906
The public needs to Understand in simple words what it really means “informed consent”, it is NOT! just “reading the ingredients” it is not just “listening for the side effects” and agree with the “doc”. Its A PROTECTION TO YOU AND YOUR LOVED ONES FROM PHARMACEUTICAL UNETHICAL AND IMMORAL MEDICAL MALPRACTICES that hey have done it in the past! IT’S ABOUT YOUR HEALTH FREEDOM AND ENTITLEMENT TO DECIDE WHAT GOES INTO YOUR BODY! INFORMED CONSENT EXIST FOR YOUR PROTECTION! IF YOU LOSE IT, YOU WONT GET IT BACK, it is a dangerous path. From The Nuremberg Code: the “person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, over-reaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the elements of the subject matter involved, as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision.”
Nobody has the power to stick a needle* in your body without your Informed Consent. The Supreme Court says you have a “privacy interest in preventing a government agent from piercing the… skin.” (Missouri vs McNeely, 133 S.Ct. 1552, 2013).Nobody has the power to make you surrender your Rights (such as to Informed Consent) in order to receive a public benefit (such as schooling for your children). The Supreme Court calls that an “unconstitutional condition” (Dolan v. City of Tigard, 512 U.S. 374, 1994)
No government anywhere has authority to mandate any (even emergency) medical intervention, absent a due process competency hearing.
Historically, legal moves for involuntary medical intervention have always been initiated by a family member, doctor or other guardian, with a due process hearing right covering both Informed Consent and competency. To the contrary, the new forced vaxx push is built on legislative enactments without individualized due process, violating Jacobson v Mass (1905).
Ms. Lalama runs a site that claims to recover kids from autism using supplements and other treatments. She is opposed to this bill because she believes vaccines cause autism.
Not to mention the money loss she will encounter from no longer being able to take advantage of the uninformed.
Maddie – why are you defaming and making statements about people that are not true?
Easy to hide under Concerned in Oakland. Tell us about yourself instead of going after people.
REALLY? where? show me.
The same goes to you! another liar moron irresponsable! that obviously you are a troll! whoever read this can see your filthy intentions! you slandered me, I DO NOT SELL anything! and implying I am guilty because I mention something or post a link you consider that “guilty by association” is stupid as both of you! stop playing playstation and fantasy land on FB! and get a grasp of real life! losers and liars! NOW IS WELL STABLISHED I DO NOT SELL ANYTHING! I am not in that type of business! IDIOTS! HAHAHA! IDIOTS!
Dear Concerned in Oakland – where is the study that proves that the vaccine schedule does not cause autism? I would really really like to read that; as I do not believe that the study exists. Please post the link or where I can obtain access to this study. I have looked many times but could not find it.
I’m not “Concerned in Oakland” but here is one (of the many!) studies that show, once again, there is no link between vaccines and autism.
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=2275444&resultClick=1
Hard to believe that you couldn’t find it as it is in my first ten results of Google searches. Tinfoil hat conspiracies in T minus 10, 9, 8, 7 ……….
This study was funded in part by a vaccination manufacturer. And the study in fact only studied one vaccination the MMR. Did you buy the article and read it?
I guess that you did not read my post – where is the study that proves that the VACCINE SCHEDULE does not cause autism? The study to which you refer only studied one vaccine – NOT THE SCHEDULE WITH ALL 49 VACCINES BY AGE 5.
So I ask again, did you buy the study and read it? Oh, wait you answered that – you Googled it,
Lesse the author affiliations are:
The Lewin Group, Falls Church, Virginia
2Optum, Eden Prairie, Minnesota
3A. J. Drexel Autism Institute, Drexel University, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
This is the Journal of he American medical association. One does not get more credible then that. Tell you what, why don’t you humor me an show me a credible study that shows any link between vaccines and autism. Credible is the operating word here.
http://www.lewin.com/clients/pharmabiodevice/
Yes the Lewin Group, has pharmaceutical companies as clients – hardly a non-biased group!. Are you really going to tell me that pharmaceutical companies had no hand in this study!? I am not trying to humor you, if I could find a study that proves that the VACCINE SCHEDULE does not cause autism I would read it.
You would have a lot more credibility if you were not selling snake-oil that poses as a “cure” for autism.
Tell us about yourself Maddie Black….
Well, I like long walks on the beach, hot coffee and wriggly puppies to play with.
Oh come on Maddie. Share where you work. Show us your research on how you come to determine vaccines are safe and based on science.
I could post link after link after link doing so. Unfortunately they go to organizations such as the American Medical Association, JAMA, FDA etc so they are automatically “suspect” in the minds of the typical tin-foil hat wearing anti-vaxxer.
Show me Maddie
Ok, here’s one for starters. Journal of the American Medical association shows that once again, Vaccines do not cause autism,
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=2275444&resultClick=1
How about this one – http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23576057
I simply do not understand the logic of an anti-vaxxer. No medical procedure is 100% safe. There is always an element of risk. However there is no vaccine out there whose side effects are worse than the disease itself.
Exactly, Maddie. That’s the whole point! If there is a risk, there must be a choice. Thanks for supporting our opposition 🙂
Hmmm, you may have a point there. Where there is risk, there must be a choice right? If anti-vaxxers want to avoid the statistically tiny risk of adverse affects from vaccines then the rest of society should be able to avoid unvaccinated children, no matter how small the risk. Right? Is that how it goes?
The best way to ‘avoid’ an unvaccinated child is to have you and your children vaccinated. Problem solved. You don’t have to avoid them for goodness sake. Sounds like you want to have them locked up or something. Geeze. What the heck are you so afraid of? Go ahead and get YOUR children vaccinated.
1. Vaccines aren’t 100% effective (nothing is actually)
2. Some vaccines and vaccinations do not provide lifetime immunity.
3. Newborns and infants cannot be vaccinated.
4. Those with specific medical conditions (e.g., compromised immune systems) cannot be vaccinated.
The government is telling you that you cannot choose to be a public
carrier of crippling, deadly and highly communicable diseases for which
safe and effective vaccinations are available.
Actually I am not a carrier – I have had, measles, german measles, chicken pox and pertussis. I have lifetime immunity.
Um, good for you then?
Yes, thanks!
This is how I see it. If I go into work with a cold, which has a 0% death rate, and infect others – then I am a jerk. Why are you so cavalier about the health of others? Suppose we don’t want to be infected with whatever you happen to have? “I’ve had measles, mumps, rubella and herpes and I’m OK.” Good for you but I don’t want any of those things so stop being so generous with other people’s lives.
You are saying that I am cavalier about the health of others. Not true. I just don’t think health comes out of a needle. If you do that is fine but I disagree.
Disagreeing with proven facts does not excuse you.
Excuse me from what? Having an opinion? Having done research, having had my child had an adverse vaccine reaction?
excused from being cavalier with the health of others.
I can have an opinion that it’s better to drive blindfolded, but that opinion doesn’t mean I’m not an idiot.
As I said I do not have a cavalier attitude about the health of others. Health does not come out of a needle.
I don’t drive blindfolded, nor do I recommend having vaccinations blindly.
“Health does not come out of a needle.”
Nope, but part of it does. The eradication of smallpox (which killed more than 100 Hitlers), rinderpest, polio, measles, and several other deadly diseases certainly came from vaccination.
Health, not lack of disease doesn’t come from a needle.
Excuse me? Excuse me from what.? Proven fact that health comes from a needle. Absence of disease does not equal health.
You can get chickenpox a second time, rarely, and pertussis a second time, not so rarely.
Do you understand why that is?
Yes. Do you? Don’t think so. You think you have lifetime immunity to both.
I would like to read a paper that states why. Not just my immunity waned or something like that. Why only certain people?
Because everyone is different! Here’s an article from the CDC, though you anti-vaxers don’t trust them.
http://www.cdc.gov/chickenpox/about/transmission.html
An article about getting pertussis a second time.
http://www.immunize.org/catg.d/p4212.pdf
Neither is a research paper, which you anti-vaxers are constantly demanding of pro-vaccine people, while you quote anti-semitic pig farmers and the like.
Really both articles do not go into the why. I do love the reason because we are all different. That is exactly why it should be parents with input from their doctors that decide what is injected into their children. Since there is risk there must be choice.
The websites that I quoted were CBS, the CDC, and The Lewin Group, hardly the likes of “anti-semitic pig farmers.”
Don’t you know how to Google? Why do you AVs always want everything spoon-fed to you? You’re twisting my words to fit your agenda. Figures for an AV.
” Since there is risk there must be choice.”
That would make a good bumper sticker. That didn’t come from the CDC. CBS, maybe. TV reporters don’t understand vaccines. Just look at Katie Couric, that dumbbell. The Lewin Group is owned by a subsidiary of United Health Care. If there’s anyone not to trust, it’s the insurance companies.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Lewin_Group
It is easier to find article such as you posted; thought you already had the info. Yeah right, spoon fed.
I agreed with you, did not twist your words. Wasn’t intended to be a bumper sticker. It is a statement.
I agree about the Lewin Group too. Why would I want to believe the study that they commissioned when they state on their website, “We provide analysis and results-focused strategies demonstrating the
value of medical products to public and private sectors payers?” The study indicated there wasn’t a link between autism and the MMR vaccine.
From the article: “If there is any risk, there must be a choice. ” Is this the latest mantra?
Well, they’re right about that. There is no relationship between autism and MMR or any other vaccine. Links to original research have been posted numerous times. Not googling that one for you.
Then why do they include mandatory shots for diseases that are not communicable?
Well you could avoid sick people.
Now you are putting the foil hat and want to avoid people that are not sick.
Do you understand how disease works? People can be contagious in the early stages BEFORE the symptoms manifest. Do you understand how the Measles outbreak occurred in Disneyland earlier this year? These people did not waltz into Disneyland with pustules and spots.
How about when I take my elderly Grandmother to one of her many Dr’s visits? Please tell me how I can “avoid” any sick people who may also be in the waiting room.
My mother just passed away due to doctor error. Please don’t bring your Grandmother into it! Besides your Grandma is vaccinated isn’t she? What about when she goes to the store, the park, hopefully if she is not vaccinated she won’t be around someone that just had a “live” virus vaccination.
Why? Let me guess…
You fell for the anti-vaccine cult’s lies about vaccine “shedding”.
Here’s a hint – unless you are so immune compromised you require the “bubble-boy” treatment there is nothing to worry about.
If you disagree you are welcome to provide evidence for problematic “shedding” and transmission of vaccine strain virus.
Citations to 1st tier scientific and medical sources only. That excludes the Weston A Price curdled milk drinkers, NVdisIC, Merde-ola, Gnatural Gnus, InfoWarts, VacTroof, GreenMedDisInfo, etc.
I will concede OPV – oral polio vaccine does shed and can cause problems but the USA does not use the OPV.
Why don’t you start with the measles vaccine virus…
(sncker)
Nonsense. You recite this as if it were self-evident, but it isn’t. First, we insist on seat belts and car seats, and on rare occasions they are more harmful than helpful. Second, you aren’t assuming the full risk as long as you can free ride on your neighbors’ vaccinations. You owe us for that. You can either vaccinate, running the (tiny) risks we took, or you can pay in other ways, like getting excluded from public school and ridiculed on the Internet.
Death?
Let me guess-
You fell for the (easily debunked) “MRR killed over 100 people” conspiracy.
What is the MRR?
This study was funded in part by a vaccination manufacturer. And the study in fact only studied one vaccination the MMR. Did you buy the article and read it?
Um no. If you had bothered to click the link, you would see that it is freely available. To anyone.
The Author affilications also show no drug manufacturer. Like I said, crackpot conspiracy theories are crackpot conspiracies.
I did click on the link – I can’t log in because I do not have an account. I know that the article shows no affiliations with pharmaceutical companies, yet they have pharmaceutical companies are their clients. Do you not think that this connection SHOULD have been listed???
So, you admit you were lying when you said above, “This study was funded in part by a vaccination manufacturer.”
http://capitolweekly.net/sb277-vaccination-bill-informed-consent-immunize/#comment-2093980996
If you deny this you have to provide evidence that some pharmaceutical company funded the study. A conspiracy theory pulled from the morass of your fevered imagination is not evidence of anything other than you are delusional.
Readers should ask again,
Why do the anti-vaccine cultists constantly lie?
NO I WAS NOT LYING – I may have worded it badly, but I was not lying. http://www.lewin.com/clients/pharmabiodevice/ Did you check this out? The study was put out by The Lewin Group who is funded by pharmaceutical companies. HELLO! This conflict of interest should have been listed.
Wow! “worded it badly” is now the anti-vaxxers excuse for “lying”.
I did not lie. Pharmaceutical companies are their CLIENTS. Do you really think that is not a conflict of interest that at least should have been noted? Do you really think that is a unbiased study when the company that does the study receives money from clients that are Pharmaceutical companies and
doesn’t at least give notice of such. This is NOTHING like the example you gave. Do you really think the Lewin Group would have come up with a different conclusion? Because they are honest?
And I said I MAY HAVE worded it badly since you did not understand what I was saying. Pharma pays Lewin to do “analysis and results-focused strategies demonstrating the value of medical products to public and private sectors”(from their website).
And here’s something that anti-vaxxers fail to comprehend.
The gold standard of scientific research is repeatability. If somebody presents the results of a study, and three independent groups all do the same study and get the same results, you can be confident that the results are valid. It’s also how you know that no conspiracy is going on.
That’s how we know that vaccines don’t cause autism, and are far more effective and far less dangerous than conspiracy sites would have you believe.
Where is the study that proves
that the VACCINE SCHEDULE does not cause autism? The study referred to previously only studied one vaccine – NOT THE SCHEDULE WITH ALL 49 VACCINES
BY AGE 5. I would like to read it. Thanks.
Those are their customers you dishonest POS.
That is like saying the CIA is funding you because you sold the government 100000 pens and some ended up with the CIA.
How is Lewin under the thumb of Abbott, Amgen, Pfizer, Wyeth, etc. all at the same time? In your delusional conspiracy they are following the orders of each of these companies which must be nearly impossible since they are in competition with each other.
You are a good example of the dishonesty and lunacy common in the anti-vaccine cult.
Pharmaceutical companies are their CLIENTS. Do you really think that is not a conflict of interest that at least should have been noted? Do you really think that is a unbiased study when the company that does the study receives money from clients that are Pharmaceutical companies and doesn’t at least give notice of such. This is NOTHING like the example you gave. Do you really think the Lewin Group would have come up with a different conclusion? Beccause they are honest?
Glad I am a good example.
You are not, no need to call me names. Maybe it makes you feel better.
Which of those companies paid for the study as you stated, Linn?
None?
Why did you lie?
I didn’t lie. Pharmaceutical companies are their CLIENTS. Do you really think that
is not a conflict of interest that at least should have been noted? Do
you really think that is a unbiased study when the company that does
the study receives money from clients that are Pharmaceutical companies
and
doesn’t at least give notice of such.
From the link describing this organization “We provide analysis and results-focused strategies demonstrating the value of medical products to public and private sectors payers, clinicians, health care facilities, patients, and policymakers. ”
They specify that they will show the value of medical products, not that they will conduct research and report whatever results may come. That does tend to diminish the value of their research as I would assume that research that doesn’t show the desired results will not be made public. Instead, studies will be redesigned to provide the results their clients are paying for.
I DO NOT “SELL” ANYTHING! I should sue you for slandering! I will request this paper to remove your comments or present evidence of such claims.
I’m sorry to hear how Maddie Black just does this kind of stuff.
Maddie – calling people names and accusing them of selling things they don’t sell isn’t nice. Especially when you have a conflict of interest and work with the Pharmeutical industry.
*sigh* It is people posting on an online article. Surely you understand that there is no money or favors exchange going on here? Anyway, I don’t work for the Pharmaceutical industry but thank you for the flattery.
Who do you work for?
Ultimately, I work for the bank that my mortgage is with. 🙁
Oh yes!
autismone, where instead of vaccines, they’ll sell you a month worth of placebos for $60.
Autism One where you can pay to hear all about the wondrous discovery of chlorine bleach enemas for your autistic child.
And have the lunatics that developed the khemikill kastration treatment for autism as honoured speakers.
And hear a lecture by the vaccine pharma-fraud that tried to make tens of millions of $$ by convincing parents to reject the MMR vaccine in favour of his vaccine.
And you get to pay to attend this trade show for lunatics and quacks.
The same goes to you! another liar moron irresponsable! that obviously you are a troll! you all have lost total credibility here, whoever read this can see your filthy intentions! you slander me, I DO NOT SELL anything! and implying I am guilty because I mention something or post a link you consider that “guilty by association” is stupid as both of you! stop playing playstation and fantasy land on FB! and get a grasp of real life! losers and liars! NOW IS WELL STABLISHED I DO NOT SELL ANYTHING! I am not in that type of business! IDIOTS! HAHAHA! IDIOTS!
That’s it!
Off the internet Missy.
You’ve used up your daily allotment of exclamation points and capital letters in one post.
I suggest you open a web store so you can sell useless alt-med stuff in your spare time.
BTW – Have you heard about the latest autism biomed protocol? I learned about it at an AutizmOne lecture:
Drink 4 – 8oz glasses of fluoridated water (0.7-1.0ppm) per day.
Drink 2 – 8oz glasses of a carbonated beverage sweetened with HFCS per day.
Eat 4oz of salty snax made with GMO corn per day.
No charge.
Are you a teenager? don’t you know how a “foundation” works? for the record the foundation is NOT mine! and I do not sell anything! what you are doing is call slandering and it’s ilegal! and yes your other troll friend keep erasing my posts, but I have copies of all this and I will report you two! https://www.fcc.gov/guides/broadcast-journalism-complaints
You are reporting this to the government? Is this the same government that is part of the “Vaccine conspiracy?” Sheesh.
go ahead, try to “buy something” from me! hahaha, I challenge you! and if you cannot, “slandering” it’s proven, what you are doing it’s ilegal! it’s call slandering people! “reality022” you should get a grasp of “reality! you are dumb teenager! I wouldn’t even hire you as a troll! because not even that you can do it right!
I didn’t say you were selling anything. I was only trying to help you with a suggestion that you open a web store and sell useless alt-med nostrums.
There’s lots of money in fleecing the terminally credulous. All you have to do is badmouth facts, evidence and science and replace them with feelings, anecdotes and conspiracy. You seem to have that last part down already so you are 1/2 way to a profitable career scamming the ignorant dunderheads.
You can even sell that autizm biomed protocol I just listed. It works better than bleach enemas and doesn’t require a medical license like the Lupron sex-criminal castration treatment.
No charge.
defs a shill.
As usual Reality022 has nothing to contribute to the actual discussion, nothing to say about the real issues here. Just personal attacks, slander and hyperbole.
David, are you a fan of chlorine bleach enemas for autistic children as promoted by an AutismOne lecturer?
Are you a fan of chemical castration by Lupron for autistic boys as promoted by AutismOne lecturers?
Be honest now…
We know you really love these wondrous biomed interventions. Seeing the lining of a child’s intestine on a plate while a lunatic Dr. Frankenstein mommy describes it as a “parasite” must make you all tingly.
Readers should note that this scenario of a child’s intestinal lining on a plate described as “parasites” is not a bizarre invention. It is a consequence of bleach enemas given to autistic children as promoted at AutismOne.
Why not stick to the real issue at hand? California Department of Public Health says only 1% of our state’s kids have never been vaccinated. The rest of the PBE-holders have been at least partially-vaxxed. Like my kids. One child has had only 1 MMR (93% immune to measles as per CDC) and cannot attend school under SB277 without the 2nd shot (which would make him 97% immune, as per CDC). My Kindergartner cannot attend school without the Hep B shot. Not only is Hep B most often caught through sex and drug needle use (google CDC fact sheet on Hep B), but kids who actually have Hep B are allowed in our schools (because it not seen as highly-communicable). We wait for the teen years when kids only need 2 doses instead of 3 (you need less doses later as the vax is more effective in teenagers). The teen years would be a more likely time for experimenting in drugs and sex – more likely than K at least. Why not wait?.
SB277 is more than a “vaccines are good for you” bill. We can argue all day about bleach enemas (never heard of them, btw, and I’ve been researching vaccines for a decade) but that’s not the focus of this law. This law takes away parents’ rights, informed consent, and children’s right to an education. It will take children who are vaccinated and protected against the communicable diseases out of public school. We already have very high vaccination rates. There is no good reason for this law.
Get your kids vaccinated and up to date.
If not, keep them home and school them yourself.
That is called – Choice.
better not go out anywhere if you’re that scared that your vaccinated children are in danger. remember disney land!
and some people have washed their child’s hair with bleach to get rid of head lice. you’re point?
You are truly an idiot! who told you that I “own” “autism one foundation”? I don’t! you are making a fool of yourself deeper and deeper! LMAO! stupid people you is the cancer of America! really!
You advertised a quack site.
If you want to be taken seriously, don’t link yourself with nonsense.
You are an idiot! first you said “I sell” I mean I personally! YOU ARE A LIER! I DON’T SELL ANYTHING! you are a troll a liar and has lost all credibility, now you say I am “guilty by association”! you are a moron! in top of stupid!
more than an idiot, i bet, or less , depending on how you look at it.
The same goes to you! another liar moron irresponsable! that obviously you are a troll! you all have lost total credibility here, whoever read this can see your filthy intentions! you slander me, I DO NOT SELL anything! and implying I am guilty because I mention something or post a link you consider that “guilty by association” is stupid as both of you! stop playing playstation and fantasy land on FB! and get a grasp of real life! losers and liars! NOW IS WELL STABLISHED I DO NOT SELL ANYTHING! I am not in that type of business! IDIOTS! HAHAHA! IDIOTS!
and stop erasing my posts! because I uncovered you all trolls!
Help, we’re all naked here!
I do not sell anything and you better stop erasing this clarification or you have to erase this person as well, what this person is doing it’s ilegal! it’s call slandering or I will make snap shots and complain to https://www.fcc.gov/guides/broadcast-journalism-complaints
Two questions:
1. How can I erase people’s comments on these threads without being a moderator? That would be super convenient.
2. Do you know what “slandering” even means?
I actually recommend you report me to the fcc. I’m sure they’d be entertained.
you keep erasing my posts! BRIAN! but guess what? I have snap shots of your ilegal activities, yes “slandering” it’s ilegal!
Except that he is not slandering you.
Slander is spoken. The word you are looking for is Libel. And, it is only libel if it isn’t true.
Welcome newbie Troll!
Seeing your followers (Bishop, Ivan, Cathy, and Brooke Dunne), it is obvious you are part of this new pack of trolls. You are likely a reincarnation of one of these folks…
Andrea, Brian is not by himself erasing your posts. The way Disqus can be configured to operate, on a given website if enough people flag a comment it can be automatically deleted, or optionally, sent into moderation.
The trolls have been using this tactic prodigiously, it’s the only way they think they can appear to win any argument.
It’s why any given thread includes comment after comment from them, all personal attacks, but no real substance and no discussion of the issues at hand.
On the issues alone, especially on SB277, they get their @sses handed to them.
Tell me David, what’s the difference between an “adverse effect” and “adverse event”?
That is not even relevant to the context here, and I have no interest in taking part in any of your pop quizzes. I could not care less what you think of my competence.
And your incompetence is exactly why I choose not to share more substantial comments with people like you. You don’t understand the basics of the basics.
That is nonsensical, cowardice in fact.
Your comments are not for me, they are for the folks who are reading these articles and comments tryinging to better understand these issues.
So what is your intention here? Are you trying to sway opinion, or just make anyone who questions vaccine safety look bad?
I’m anti-dishonesty.
Anti-vaxxers spread false information that endangers society. It’s as simple as that.
I also have no qualms about calling out “pro-vaxxers” when they’re being dishonest.
Fair enough. Then why not state specifically what you find to be dishonest, instead of simply throwing out personal attacks?
See the catch here is, this requires you to understand what the other person said, and then tell everyone why they are incorrect.
I understand this will be a bold new venture for you…good luck!
David, do you have any facts or information to share?
All you’ve done since you got here is tone troll and whine about other’s behavior.
As you can see, I am emulating your posts complaining about other folks not contributing anything to the conversation, which you seem to be expert at.
You are the expert at calling names! Congrats to you.
I share plenty of facts, all the time. Earlier in this thread even.
You are the one who started in with me, asking about bleach enemas (which I have never heard of, and I’ve been researching vaccine safety issues for over 20 years).
David Foster said, “You are the one who started in with me, asking about bleach enemas …”
Ooooh David you little fibber you.
You started this by attacking me first with this post.
http://capitolweekly.net/sb277-vaccination-bill-informed-consent-immunize/#comment-2094080954
“As usual Reality022 has nothing to contribute to the actual discussion, nothing to say about the real issues here. Just personal attacks, slander and hyperbole.”
To which I replied (as you note):
http://capitolweekly.net/sb277-vaccination-bill-informed-consent-immunize/#comment-2094102618
“David, are you a fan of chlorine bleach enemas for autistic children as promoted by an AutismOne lecturer? …”
It’s good to see you haven’t changed and are still a blatant liar.
Andrea,
They can delete posts by working as a pack and flagging ones they don’t like. However, some of them also know how to hack and take down comments they don’t like all on their own. I have had MANY of mine deleted by these creeps. Theoretically you can write to Disqus and show them how your comments have been taken down, and Disqus will do something about it. Disqus banned one of the most egregious (P.) the other day, presumably because of this, I know he took down dozens of mine. They’re still in my commenting history and I can click on “see in discussion” to put them back, but then they just take them down again. I really don’t know what to do about it, it really wastes a lot of my time, and I guess they want me to get discouraged and stop posting. Probably hoping the same about all those they treat in this way. I’m sorry they’re doing this to you.
As usual Brian has nothing to contribute to the actual discussion,
nothing to say about the real issues here. Just personal attacks,
slander and hyperbole.
brian, a word to the wise, you reek. only a newbie would believe you.
Yes, thank you for this article. This bill is draconian in its nature. It is shameful that so many politicians are so susceptible to lobbying pressure, campaign contributions, and mass hysteria created by PR firms and the mass media.
There is nothing draconian about it. Science-rejecting anti-vaxxers are simply being held accountable for their poor decision making skills.
Anti-Vaxxer? That’s like saying ‘those people are communist! Don’t listen to them!’ in 1950’s. Or those people are Japs – don’t trust them in 1940’s. Or like ‘Those people are ‘hippies’ in 1960’s – don’t listen to them. Do your research and stop calling group of people names. I’ve met them and the correct terminology for the people is ‘Pro-Science, Pro-Transparency, Pro-Accountability, Pro-Freedom, Pro-Choice” A good place to start would be the independent watchdog group called nvic.org
I’ve done my research. Instead of cooking up conspiracy theories and nonsense, I wish you people would do so as well.
Oh Christmas. NVIC{dot}org is not an “independent watchdog group.” At all.
This is exactly why this bill is needed. For the little segment of stupid that can’t tell the difference between crackpot and credible source.
$¢ien¢e rejecting.
Ahhh, changed your avatar to a caricature of your victim instead of using a stolen picture of her?
Not going to work stalking troll.
You are still a creepy stalking troll of Dorit Reiss who was using an image of her as your avatar a few minutes ago. Now you are using a caricature of her with a user name that is her name with one extra letter.
Reported.
AB2109 helped the people who used vaccination exemptions for laziness reasons (faster to file a form than get shots forms updated). It had no real impact on the real problem here: antivaxxers who opt out because they foolishly believe that vaccinations cause autism. They put our children at risk. Diehard antivaxxers oppose this bill because they are afraid that a vaccine will harm their kids, despite no scientific evidence of that whatsoever – the opposite, in fact. This bill does not in any way challenge informed consent. Antivaxxers just don’t like that their choices have CONSEQUENCES. Their choice to not vaccinate has consequences for us vaccinating parents as well! Our children are put at risk time and time again by their selfishness. There are measles outbreaks in CA, diphtheria outbreaks in Spain…let’s end the madness. vaccinatecalifornia.org/contact_your_reps to stand up to antivax lies and stupidity.
Vaccines have harmed children. You think the Federal Government just pays out over three billion dollars in compensation simply because people asked? Get real. Your entire blood line made it to this point in history with very little help from vaccines. You also have no understanding of informed consent and what the term means. More children were harmed by the measles vaccine this year than were children who actually had measles. Go to the VAERS database and see for yourself. It’s quantifiable and not debatable. That’s the science. If you need more proof read any vaccine package insert to see the complications that can and do occur. But of course, first you need to pull your head out of the sand and actually read the science.
The above is easily shown to be laughable anti-vaccine cult disinformation.
OK genius, please go here: http://vaers.hhs.gov/data/index
and read the first sentence of the VAERS data page.
What does it say?
“When evaluating data from VAERS, it is important to note that for any reported event, no cause-and-effect relationship has been established.“
Readers should ask:
What part of “no cause-and-effect relationship has been established” do anti-vaccine cultists not understand?
Are they all illiterate or merely outrageous liars?
Raw VAERS data cannot be used to say a vaccine caused anything.
Those who try to pass off VAERS data as fact are lying to you or are completely illiterate ignoramuses. That whole VAERS entry webpage is one massive warning to not do what Jeff is doing.
Why do anti-vaccinationists constantly lie?
That’s right. Just like cigarette smoking and lung cancer. High correlation but hard to prove causation. For years the “science” regarding heart disease was that fat was the culprit. That turned out to be wrong. Again, read a package insert of any, I repeat, any vaccine and you will read what can and does occur within a segment of the population. As a person that contracted all of these childhood infections, that you seem to be terrified of, there was no nightly news report of how many children came down with chickenpox, there were no family physicians panicking over which of their patients had measles and there were no politicians trying to pass laws that would exclude a healthy child from attending school. A child that has Hep-B cannot be discriminated against from attending school and yet if a child has not been vaccinated for that very same Hep-B they will be denied under this law.
Readers should note that Jeff has completely avoided the fact that he posted absolute disinformation. He is now doubling down with the “package insert” gambit. The package inserts are legal documents and contain similar disclaimers about causality.
For example, the MMRII – https://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/m/mmr_ii/mmr_ii_pi.pdf has this disclaimer:
“The following adverse reactions are listed in decreasing order of severity, without regard to causality, …”
Just as with the VAERS system they are listing everything that occurred after the vaccination without regard to actual causality. They flat-out say it in the insert which Jeff and the other anti-vaccine cultists conveniently don’t tell you. The insert warnings are legal documents written by lawyers.
That’s two doses of disinformation from Jeff and again brings up the question:
Why do anti-vaccinationists constantly lie?
Edited to add:
BTW – This is the type of “Informed” the anti-vaccine cultists are talking about when they whine about “informed consent”. They want to be allowed to pump unsuspecting parents full of lies and disinformation so they can recruit more cultists and sell more supplements and DVDs and lectures and office visits.
Yes, you’re right. All drugs are completely safe. No child has ever been harmed by a vaccine. Pharmaceutical companies always tell the truth. The CDC and the FDA only have your best interest in mind. Politicians are never influenced by campaign contributions and The US Court of Federal Claims is just giving money away to anyone that asks. Happy now?
Strawman is still a strawman.
Nobody is saying any of those things. I will say though that we live in a society and organized crackpots do not have the
right to bring back third world diseases that were previously
eradicated. This bill will only boost herd immunity.
Herd immunity protects the immunocomprised, children who
have not yet been vaccinated, those who have a legitimate medical
issues and those for whom the vaccine did not “take.” We need high numbers of people to be vaccinated to have
proper herd immunity.
No, you need large numbers to be vaccinated so you can feel safe. The parents of un-vaccinated children know and see that their children are far and away healthier than the general population that is vaccinated.
Evidence?
Please provide data from 1st tier sources. No kook sites allowed. That eliminates NVdisIC, Merde-ola, Gnatural Gnus, VacTroof, InfoWarts, David Icke, Rensedotcom, WailTeeOh, etc.
Comparing a survey by a German homeopath of his readership with an actual scientific study will be ridiculed unmercifully.
You’re funny. I have to prove something to you? Troll!
Still not going to answer?
Done with you.
Could you please provide scientific proof that you are indeed done with me? And no hyperbole or opinion. I need a reputable source from a peer reviewed journal, without bias, that you are indeed done with me. Otherwise, your words are just shallow ramblings of an egotistical nobody.
And yet, you keep responding to him/her………….
Well then I’m confused. The Native Americans had plenty of organic food, exercise, no pollution or stress of modern day living. And yet, they died by the millions from measles and smallpox.
They didn’t get enough Vitamin D from the sun, Maddie. They used to sit inside their longhouses, teepees, pueblos, and lodges furiously tapping away on their computers so they couldn’t protect themselves from the introduced diseases.
Would you believe that an anti-vaxxer told me that the Native Americans being wiped out by European diseases was “Natural Selection?” They really are nuts.
Yep, death and disease is “Good!”. Just ask that eminent anti-vaccine researcher and leading light of the anti-vax movement, Sherri Tenpenny:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pByYy2uhIIU
One would think that hanging around with the Nation of Islam and Scientology and ChemTrailers and 9/11 Truthers, etc. would be enough to clue in unsuspecting “researchers” that the anti-vaccine cult is bat-guano insane.
That’s right. Folks died from measles until they didn’t. That’s how evolution works. That’s how our bodies develop a symbiotic relationship with the microbes of the world. Somehow your ancestors survived without vaccines and here you are afraid that we’ll all perish without them.
Boy, we evolved measles resistance in only a couple years coincindentally at the same time the vaccine was licensed:
Measles – vaccine licensure 1963:
http://www.iayork.com/Images/2009/3-31-09/Measles.jpg
Right up to 1963 virtually 100% of the population got measles and then the measles incidence dropped like a rock at the same time the vaccine was rolled out.
Isn’t that amazing folks?
Handwashing and toilet paper at work. /sarc
are you actually kidding? if not you’re right to be confused if you don’t even understand that encountering an entirely alien virus is different from encountering one that you’re ancestors and everybody around you have co evolved with.
Except, no objective data every shows unvaccinated children to be healthier. Unsurprisingly, they get sick with pertussis and measles at much higher rates than vaccinated children with vaccine failures. What you mean to say is that unvaccinated children are more pure. A dead vaccine virgin, in your eyes, is healthier than a defiled kid who is alive and kicking.
By objective I presume you mean what is observable? While there has been no long term studies measuring overall health outcomes of vaccinated vs. un-vaccinated children there is a wealth of anecdotal evidence from pediatricians, parents and other health care providers that the un-vaccinated are overall healthier. Believe what you will but the Western paradigm of healthcare is anything but healthy. If it were so, the kids of today would be the healthiest of any generation and they are not. And neither are the adults. Contracting an infectious disease does not equate to being unhealthy. That is a presumption on your part. You can’t even begin to comprehend the complexity of the organism that you are and how these diseases are used to our benefit. Millions of years of continuing evolution but somehow we’re broken without pharmaceuticals. You don’t understand what health is because you have not lived it. Good Day.
Tripling down on the disinfo, Jeff?
The pharmaceutical companies seem to be able to tell the truth much more than you. Did you tell the truth about the VAERS system or did you present disinformation about the VAERS data in contravention to the instructions on VAERS’ own disclaimer page?
Do you think you can finally answer this question or are you going to continue to dishonestly try to change the subject, Jeff?
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/merck-tried-to-quash-vioxx-study/
Yeah, pharmaceutical companies always tell the truth, just like auto manufacturers and news anchors.
And Anti-vaxxers especially!
Really, Maddie, all anti-vaxxers lie, right. Especailly anti-vaxxers.
Brilliant argument by the way. I guess it takes one to know one?
And anti-vaxxers especially !
No, it’s not the same as smoking and lung cancer. The point of VAERS is not to even attempt to prove causation for their “table injuries”.
The “reality” is in the numbers 022. No lies required. Look it up yourself. See how much Big Pharmaceuticals have paid California legislatures just before these bills were introduced. Anybody want to guess the biggest recipient (nearly $100,000)? Yup, Pan – the author. Anybody else want to guess the other big recipients? Yup, the chairs of the committees that passed this bill. See the Sacramento Bee article from last week. (oh, and you forgot to address the reality of the part of the US Government paying out over $3 billion to vaccine injured families)
Nice conspiracy theory you’ve got going there.
No Republicans? I think #3 on the list is Republican.
How about contributions from Trial Lawyers and Law firms? I think they contributed much, much more than the pharmaceutical industry.
$3 billion in 27 years and 10s of billions of vaccinations? Seems pretty low to me. It works out to be less than 1 award per 1 million vaccinations.
What would it be if every ambulance chasing lawyer with lying clients were able to swing for the bleachers with a suit against a pharmaceutical company?
How much would the diseases have cost? How many Trillions $$?
BTW suzanne, did Jeff dispense disinformation about VAERS or not? Was his VAERS information correct or was it completely in error?
They’re not illiterate, they’re liars.
Never mind. You are just plain rude.
Being rude isn’t as bad as spreading false information that endangers children.
Look in the mirror Bud.
There is no vaccine that is more unsafe than the disease it is intended to prevent.
While there is no guarantee that a specific child won’t have an adverse
reaction to a vaccine, there is also no guarantee that the same child
left un-vaccinated would survive the disease without permanent injury,
or, at all for that matter.
Spoken like a real youngster. I had measles, rubella, chicken pox and mumps as a child. So did everyone I knew as a child. If what you believe were actually true you would not be commenting on anything. Your ancestors survived much worse than any of these for you to be able to post your inane beliefs at this point in time.
Um, good for you then?
But not everyone survived. My greatgrandparents lost three kids in three weeks to a diphtheria epidemic. Those kids died with their immunity intact, but they never got to reproduce.
Every military veteran I’ve ever spoken to survived.
Therefore, wars aren’t dangerous.
Thank you for illustrating the “survivorship bias”.
I had measles, chicken pox, and mumps. Not especially proud of it. Deaf kid in school from measles. Lame teacher, too, from polio.
Now, that rubella you had, as a male, would have been a minor illness, but I wonder if you infected some pregnant woman, with very high likelihood of stillbirth or severe congenital abnormality. That’s the rubella risk, but like the other diseases, no skin of your rear.
Yeah, as a child I liked hanging out at various OB/GYN offices while infected with the mumps.
There’s also no guarantee that the vaccine will protect from illness and not maim or kill the kid.
You don’t know what you are talking about. Have you noticed that Polio is now extinct in the United States? How about Smallpox? That is due to vaccines.
most of them actually.
Fine, Jeff. Please compare $3.5 billion paid out over 25 years with the losses from the diseases themselves, before vaccines. I think you will find that vaccines are a big bargain. I await your analysis.
Always living in the past, huh Andrew? You mean before clean water, sanitation, food security, knowledge about vitamin A & C, etc. This is directly from the CDC:
Sanitation and Hygiene
The 19th century shift in population from country to city that accompanied industrialization and immigration led to overcrowding in poor housing served by inadequate or nonexistent public water supplies and waste-disposal systems. These conditions resulted in repeated outbreaks of cholera, dysentery, TB, typhoid fever, influenza, yellow fever, and malaria.
By 1900, however, the incidence of many of these diseases had begun to decline because of public health improvements, implementation of which continued into the 20th century. Local, state, and federal efforts to improve sanitation and hygiene reinforced the concept of collective “public health” action (e.g., to prevent infection by providing clean drinking water). By 1900, 40 of the 45 states had established health departments. The first county health departments were established in 1908 (6). From the 1930s through the 1950s, state and local health departments made substantial progress in disease prevention activities, including sewage disposal, water treatment, food safety, organized solid waste disposal, and public education about hygienic practices (e.g., foodhandling and handwashing.
Vaccines are a bargain for whom? A forty billion dollar industry with zero liability and accountability.
See SB277.org. Say no to Vaccines.
OK. You can say no to Vaccines.
Say no to rational thinking!
And buy these supplements from me- they’ll cure your gullibility.
Have a look at the bottom of that page to see who SB277(dot)org recommends as informational sites.
It’s a kook konvention.
I hope the legislators see the loonies that the anti-SB277, anti-vaccine cult associates with.
No kidding!
It’s like all the moon-landing denialists getting together and setting up a website to mimic NASA, and then they cry foul when people don’t take them seriously.
Well don’t think they should take you and Reality (really!) seriously.
That’s the awesome thing about science, it doesn’t change based on your opinions and assertions.
Like the list of conspiracy sites at the bottom of that page, you can deny reality all you want, but reality won’t change to accommodate you.
Vaccines have saved millions of lives, and will continue to do so despite the best efforts of pro-disease advocates.
Right back at you Bud as far as science goes.
Hard to take you seriously when there is no such thing as someone that is for disease.
People reject vaccines for more reasons than just autism. The media only shoves autism as the one and only reason down everyone’s throat because then they can keep following the lazy script of blaming Jenny and Dr. Wakefield.
Some diehard antivaxers are afraid of autism, but others are narcissists who resent how vaccines save the non-kale-eating losers from the diseases they deserve, while their magnificent Badass Immune Systems™ will eat measles and polio for breakfast. (Why these immune systems will crumple from a shot, I can’t answer.)
Thank you for this article ! Pan has received the largest monetary gift from Pharmaceutical Companies and the other heads of the committees have also received large $ gifts (see Sacramento Bee article). This bill will take away Fundamental and Constitutional Rights. It can add more vaccines or combine a larger number of vaccines in one dose any time in the future – and parents won’t be able to deny, delay, or stagger the schedule. If there is a risk, there must be a choice. Every day more and more people are becoming aware of what this bill will really do, and the opposition is growing. More Senators and Assemblymembers are now opposing. Do your research, more of the truth is being revealed everyday……..
How ridiculous. If you choose not to vaccinate your children, you have the option of homeschooling or using an independent studies program. No one is forcing anyone to do anything.
Option? For single moms? Both parents working? Parents who don’t speak English as their first language (requirement for California homeschooling)? Its discriminatory. It’s coerced consent. All California children have the California Constitutional right to a free public education. And if the 49 doses of 14 vaccinations before the age of 6 doesn’t cause you to pause and research exactly what is being injected directly into a child’s blood stream (like hepatitis B for a one day old infant – because they have such a huge risk of having sex or sharing needles), this bill could add or combine more vaccines at any time. Do your research Maddie, or keep trolling around the websites – at least you keep the conversations alive so people can learn the truth – we thank you for that.
Being a parent is hard. If you are unable to make or stick with hard decisions, you might want to reconsider being a parent.
As for the “single moms, both parents working and parents who don’t speak English,” Give me a break. You don’t give a darn about other parents or other people, you wouldn’t being so cavalier with public health if that was the case. I can sum up the anti-vax thinking in one word: MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!
Well then let all of us decide what is best for our children as the majority of us care more about our own children than politicians. That might be all vaccinations, some vaccinations, some on a later schedule, or not vaccinations. I care about the health of children or I would not be pro-parent’s choice — they know their children better than dr. Pan or you.
Nope.
You do not get to threaten public health.
If you insist on doing so, access to society (e.g. schools) will be limited accordingly.
How am I threatening public health? I am immune. Since you admit that vaccines are not 100% what about the people that had the vaccines and are not immune? Like this chart shows.
Most vaccines are over 90% effective.
Deliberately skipping vaccines is 0% effective.
http://www.cdc.gov/pertussis/downloads/pertuss-surv-report-2014.pdf So what would you do with the people that are not immune and had shots. I stay home when sick, so if someone had the vaccine, they really are not going to think that they have the disease, more likely to infect someone else.
If they get sick, they stay home too, but they’re much less likely to get sick… or spread the disease to others. At least they did what they could to prevent the disease. Anti-vaxxers, on the other hand…
Nope. Being vaccinated confers the highest percentage of immunity. Having the disease once doesn’t mean that you will not get it again. Ask me about my chickenpox 🙁
I wish you would’t act dumb. You are very well aware that people in the early stages of the disease are the most contageous. I wonder how many people you infected when you had rubella, measles, herpes etc. ?
And what would you do with the people that have had the vaccine and are not immune? http://www.cdc.gov/pertussis/downloads/pertuss-surv-report-2014.pdf.
You think I am dumb (disagree!) and have had herpes (disagree) – and not cool.
I have heard about people that say they have had chicken pox more than once. I don’t understand that. Unless you are saying that you had shingles.
It is unusual, but possible to get chickenpox a second time. It is fairly easy to get pertussis a second time.
And you don’t get to execute medical fascism due to paranoid fears.
Deal with outbreaks as they happen. The law establishes for MANDATORY quarantine, not vax!
What’s after the schools Maddie? Publix and Piggly Wigglys? Libraries; where we all ‘conform to show YOU the papers?’
Such a ‘threat’ will surely effect Ca.! Ca. will be ‘limited accordingly’ and with great financial loss.
Hope they can make it up with all their pharma perks!
If we are having outbreaks of measles, pertussis and whooping cough then I would say that those are not “paranoid fears.” You are simply being held accountable for your poor medical decisions. I know that you don’t like the word “no” but too bad, you don’t get to threaten public health.
Really. Where is your outrage over smoking in public? Drinking of alcohol? Eating crap while pregnant? Eating crap, period. All public health issues. And by the way, little Johnny is going to school with children who are HIV positive, Hep A,B,C carriers as well as the common cold. There is no big threat from un-vaccinated children. There is no public health emergency. The last major outbreak of Pertussis was in a vaccinated population. So enlighten me as to who the threat is? This is about who controls our bodies. You or the government?
The threat is the return of dangerous endemic diseases, and the only thing keeping that from happening is vaccination.
In a highly vaccinated population, with a highly effective vaccine, you should still expect the majority of cases to be among the vaccinated. It’s counter-intuitive, but that is just how the math shakes out when the ratio of vaccinated to unvaccinated is high.
If you want to make the freedom argument, fine. We are always balancing freedom and safety, and we accept all kinds of unnecessary deaths in situations where we decide freedom wins out. But that doesn’t mean the safety issue doesn’t exist. You don’t have to deny the benefit of vaccines, or pretend like they aren’t preventing crippled and dead children, to make the argument.
And the other side of that coin is that vaccines also cripple, lead to chronic disease and sometimes death. All we’ve done is trade acute infections, that typically last 7-10 days, confer lifelong immunity, that the majority of the US population handles well, for a lifetime of chronic conditions with waning immunity requiring lifetime booster that are less and less effective with each successive shot. That’s what is happening. And every time the term “anti-vaxer” is bandied about think of the parents that came to that belief having sacrificed one of their children not knowing the risk.
I understand your concern, but I don’t think you have an accurate picture of the levels of risk. Vaccine adverse events do occur, but serious ones are extremely rare. On the other hand, we know that the risks of crippling and death from vaccine-preventable diseases is orders of magnitude larger. You are literally thousands of times more likely to suffer serious injury from endemic vaccine-preventable diseases than you are from vaccination. Another nuance to add is that the “thing” in the vaccine that triggers a reaction is very possibly the pathogen itself for many cases – which means that reaction would have happened anyway from wild exposure.
This link is a FAQ sort of thing by a blogging pediatrician, and I think it might address a lot of your concerns. It’s the most comprehensive list I’ve found:
http://pediatrics.about.com/od/immunizations/tp/Anti-Vaccine-Myths-and-Misinformation.htm
First, I know of this Pediatrician and he is one of the biggest proponents of vaccines. Second, there are Pediatricians who have seen the damage caused by the current childhood vaccination schedule and have come to very different conclusions. Third, I’m old enough and have had all these childhood infections and I, along with my friends, survived just fine. Of course we were hydrated, nourished with healthy food and looked after, as you would expect with a sick child. Fourth, I really don’t think we need aluminum hydroxide, ammonium sulfate, formaldehyde, polysorbate 80, bovine serum albumin, ethanol, neomycyn, MRC-5 human cells, WI-38 human-diploid fibroblast cells, etc. injected into the body of an infant.
1. Being a proponent doesn’t make him wrong, does it?
2. Yes, there may be a handful of pediatricians with concerns, but expert anecdotes are still anecdotes. Unless those pediatricians are also researchers, they aren’t controlling for biases and other variables. That’s why we have to rely on the consensus scientific opinion.
3. I’m glad you survived. Of course, it’s not exactly like those who didn’t can log on and dispute your assessment, you know? Don’t you think the nationwide statistics we have are more reliable than one person’s experience?
4. Why don’t you think we need those things you listed?
If there was “no big threat” from unvaccinated children then we wouldn’t keep having outbreaks of measles, diptheria, whooping couch etc would we? You don’t have to worry about “The Government” and “Control” because no one is being forced to have vaccinations.
So, what’s Single Mom’s plan when Junior gets the measles and needs to spend three weeks in a darkened room, being monitored for secondary infections?
Oh, I see: Single Mom is going to play the Free Rider’s Lottery, where so many other people responsibly vaccinated their kids that her little snowflake has nobody to catch measles from! I don’t think so…
FMLA!
No one is dropping from measles in this Country. You have a very vivid fantasy life; in the last century.
Due to antivaxer’s determined efforts, we do have a few hundred kids with measles every year. Are you suggesting that antivaxer get to free ride off others’ vaccinations that are the reason you have to be very unlucky to get measles today? (And I didn’t say dropping: a couple weeks in a dark room is a typical case of measles.)
Not to mention that Merck tried to quash info about one of their other products that were pulled off of the market per CBS. Is that a big enough name for you Maddie?
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/merck-tried-to-quash-vioxx-study – yeah we should all believe what Merck says is safe and effective.
Keep in mind that nobody know about Anon, Maddie Black and Concerned in Oakland works for Pharma and their job is just to hit every place to say ‘there is no science!’. Very sad. A lot of the ‘anti-vaxxer’ demonizing is done by robots under these names. Vaccines are a 50 billion dollar industry. Like the smoking industry that often parrot ‘There is no proof smoking cause lung cancer’
Nope. You simply don’t like what you read. I can understand that, but just because you don’t like it, doesn’t make it untrue or unreasonable.
I keep hearing that I can get paid to debunk false rumors on the internet. Do you know where I can send in an application?
You have absolutely no evidence of this other than wishful thinking, which is the same standard of proof you use for everything else. Thanks for playing.
If I had 50 billion dollars, and power to control the opinions of all the worlds major academic and scientific institutions, I think I could probably convince my internet shills to take 5 minutes of their time a day to create new accounts. Or pay a programmer to make the bot do it. But hey, what do I know about managing a global conspiracy?
“Citizens are polarized by Bill SB277…”
Hmm. Almost implies there are equal sides. But really, there aren’t.
There’s the 90% who are responsible parents and follow their pediatricians’ recommendations. Then there’s the other 10%, just so much smarter than everyone else.
.
Really my child had a severe reactions to a vaccine. Really very upsetting and concerning. I told the doctor about his reaction. He told me “it couldn’t possibly be the vaccine.” So I let him give child shot #2. Exactly the same reaction from my son down to the minute. Why would I listen to any doctor without doing my own research and having my own thoughts?
Please do not make the same mistake that I did.
“Why would I listen to any doctor without doing my own research and having my own thoughts?”
Because your comments thus far have indicated your “research” comes from nonsensical conspiracy websites… and as such your doctor’s comments were probably warranted.
So I should have had him vaccinated again when clearly he should never have the vaccination? And you think I am nonsensical?
Websites like CBS and The Lewin Company (website from one of the companies that did the study that YOU agree with)?
I’m a scientist. I get my info from more trustworthy sources.
The autism-vaccine conspiracy is the first dead giveaway. We’ve known that vaccines don’t cause autism for over 30 years! (Scientists were always skeptical of Wakefield’s results, even before it was revealed that he falsified data)
Studies disproving the vaccine-autism link have been studied to death. We’re just as confident that vaccines don’t cause autism as we are that planes can fly.
Conspiracy websites like naturalnews, vactruth, NVIC, et al. simply exploit the gullible.
You say you are a scientist. If so, you must realize that there are scientist that do not have the same opinion that you do. And btw Wakefield’s study did NOT say that the MMR caused autism. His study was about… well you should know if you are talking about it. And also one of the other doctors that authored that study was cleared of any wrongdoing. If you do not know that I really wondering what kind of scientist that you are.
No, his paper didn’t say MMR caused autism, but HE did- both in news conferences at the time and several times since, and used his paper to justify it.
Oddly enough, the same conspiracy theorists that are convinced “big pharma” is controlling everything don’t grasp Wakefield’s flagrant conflict of interest – which did in fact motivate the falsification of data for direct monetary gain.
Here’s a hint from a real scientist. Falsifying data is not only one of the biggest sins of science, it’s also the fastest way to destroy a career and guarantee that no research funding will come your way ever again.
Brian, you referred to Wakefield’s study! Not his statements. Another doctor on that same study was cleared of fraud and wrongdoing. There wasn’t falsification of data for any reason – this was the ruling of the British court.
Yeah, his successful defense to fraud was that Wakefield had deceived him. How does that exonerate Wakefield, or support his (totally bogus) conclusions?
Sorry, but that is just not true. Nor does it make any sense. They were both doctors on the same study analyzing the same data on the same children. That would not even be a defense.
The ruling states that Professor Walker-Smith was guilty of serious professional misconduct was flawed, in two respects: inadequate and superficial reasoning and, in a number of instances, a wrong conclusion.
Not that Dr. Wakefield had deceived him.
The issue, with Walker Smith, was about the ethics of the investigation. And on that, the appeal was he believed the falsehoods Wakefield told him. Walker Smith no longer stands by the results of his work with Wakefraud, who dropped his own (hopeless) appeal.
Source? I couldn’t find anything in the court documents to substantiate that what you are saying.
See in particular Paragraph 153 of the decision.
Remember, the issue w.r.t. Walker Smith was not whether the results was accurate, but whether he had conducted research with Wakefield without proper safeguards and permissions. The Appeal decision was that, at least to the level of proof beyond a reasonable doubt, Walker Smith didn’t grok what Wakefraud was doing.
Repeat: If this is such great news for Wakefield, why didn’t he pursue his own appeal?
They were brought up on ethics violations. The case report of the 12 children was just that, a case report.
On this, we agree. And the appeal found no ethics violation beyond reasonable doubt by Walker Smith, because he didn’t know what Wakefield was really doing. (Moreover, he had no idea Wakefield was on Anti-Pharma’s payroll, for major money.) None of this makes the study any more valid, and none of it exculpates Wakefield.
Anti-Pharma’s payroll?? You really should be a comedian.
what monetary gain is wakefield having?
He seems to have enough to support himself in the manner to which he has become accustomed. His plan was to discredit the MMR, then market his own vaccine. That would have likely made him very wealthy.
He has enough to support himself. Oh. And you know his plan.
You mean like Dr. Offit and the rotavirus vaccine?
Offit sold his financial interest in the vaccine.
Does that somehow exonerate him from having a financial conflict of interest? He made a LOT of money from this sale, he himself liked it to winning the lottery.
He still collects grants and speaking fees from pharmaceutical companies, he is one of their biggest supporters and promoters.
Yup.
http://www.science20.com/countering_psychology_woo_and_science_asds/blog/paul_offit_rotavirus_and_counterpoint_age_autisms_mark_blaxill
See the last paragraph.
Well … I suppose we “have” to listen to scientists. So I did 🙂 and I came up with the situation where many scientists say that you cannot trust biomedical research …..
“[Ioannidis] charges that as much as 90 percent of the published medical information that doctors rely on is flawed. His work has been widely accepted by the medical community” . http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/11/lies-damned-lies-and-medical-science/308269/
Apart from this disaster, there are other studies showing that the entire design concept of the present vaccines is dangerous. There is a huge gap between theory and practice. Just one example:
“Theoretically, the cross-reactivity potential in using viral antigens is equal to zero, by being 1 in 20 at 5
(that is, one out 3,200,000), the mathematical probability of 20 amino acids occurring in five identical residues between two proteins.
Likewise, the theoretical probability of 20 amino acids occurring in six identical residues between two proteins is 1 in 20 at 6, that is equal to 1 out 64,000,000.
However, conflicting with theoretical data, the numbers reported in Table 1 show the highest probability of cross-reactions, given the highest number of perfect exact matches between the viral and human proteomes. This contrast between theoretical versus actual values in the number of peptide overlaps is a powerful warning incum-bent on the future of vaccine development and delivery.
Analysis of the quantitative results reported in Table 1 and the qualitative data exposed in Table 2 indicate that the logical consequence of cross-reactions following anti-HPV vaccine administration may be possibly represented by alterations in epithelial cell proliferation (Olsen et al., 1989), obesity and subnormal rate of growth (Goddard et al., 1995);
Alzheimer’s disease (Rademakers et al., 2004); increased atherogenic potential (Dong et al., 2006); bone disorders; sensorineural deafness; ocular disorders including juvenile cataract, myopia, strabismus, retinal degeneration and detachment, and chronic uveitis (Annunen et al., 1999); alteration of differentiation, proliferation and apoptosis (Sugaya et al., 1997); alterations in myeloid cell nuclear differrentiation (Briggs et al., 1992); alteration in brain-specific regulation of cell proliferation (Xe et al., 1989), to cite only a few.” ( “Penta- and hexapeptide sharing between HPV16 and
Homo sapiens proteomes” , Kanduc D., 2009 ).
Some other papers in the same area you can find on the link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Kanduc+D.
So yes, scientifically speaking, vaccinations create disasters in the human body; at least the vaccines used now. Bytheway, Kanduc & others are NOT against vaccination. They just show that there is a very logical explanation for the postvaccine side effects ( and you can even anticipate the side effects) and they also propose a different way to design the vaccines. Have fun! 🙂
This isn’t how scientific opinion is determined. You do it by either (1) Referring to the consensus opinions of major, respected scientific organizations, or (2) Doing your own review of the literature, including existing systematic reviews.
Finding a couple of studies that can be interpreted to fit your ideology is called “cherry picking” – and it’s lazy cherry picking when you are just copy/pasting from somewhere on the internet. When that somewhere is a blog that includes 9/11 and chemtrail conspiracies, it’s just plain bizarre. (https://clareswinney.wordpress.com/2010/01/12/gardasil-kills-three-new-zealand-girls-debilitates-hundreds-of-others-opinion/)
In any scientific discipline, you can find something that either looks wrong, or was actually wrong in the past in some way. From there, you could extrapolate wildly and conclude that all of the experts are wrong. It’s a well-known formula – see the arguments against climate change, evolution, and the big bang. Its the same approach that Scientologists use to rationalize their denial of psychiatry. And it’s baloney. Science works by the self-correcting process of peer-review and consensus building. And the results of that process tell us vaccines are incredibly safe and effective.
I agree there is a lot of flawed research out there. I’d put Andy Wakefraud’s now-retracted work as Exhibit A. And, indeed, there are some structural adjustments we can make to improve results: more academic credit for repeating other people’s experiments to confirm them, or more publication of studies that didn’t have significant results.
On the other hand, history doesn’t tend to have false results, and history shows 99%+ decrease in measles and polio (etc.) incidence post-vaccines.
scientist my foot!
We are too, right sabel? According to Einstein, we all are!
We’ll show Brian our ‘science’ if he shares his! 😉
Tell that to the senior scientist at the CDC who would love to testify to Congress the moment he’s subpoenaed. And by the way you’re not a scientist. Andrew Wakefield wrote a case report about 12 children with gastrointestinal problems who were autistic. The parents said all the problems occurred after they had the MMR vaccine. That’s what was in his report.
Interesting you reach conclusions about Linn’s research, without any relevant information whatsoever. Are you clairvoyant? All she has told us is that her child reacted to a vaccine, the doctor told her it couldn’t be related to the vaccine, and then her child reacted again.
And then you conclude that the doctor must be right.
You illustrate perfectly the ignorance and bias that her doctor demonstrated.
It’s like you’re arguing against yourself!
And she won’t say what happened to her child.
And then you conclude that Linn must be right.
You illustrate perfectly the ignorance and bias that she demonstrated.
It’s like you’re arguing against yourself!
I know you are but what am I?
Seriously, grow up.
She did say what happened to her child, he had a serious vaccine reaction. Twice. That is all she chose to share, therefore it is all you need to know.
She didn’t tell us what that “serious reaction” was. He could have fallen in a well. People have reported same to VAERS as a vaccine reaction.
It’s NONE of your business how much she wants to share. She can see you sharks circling the water!
Right. I’m sure that’s what it was, falling down a well.
We can all feel better about vaccines now…
brooke is part of a posse of proshills. as are those who upvote her. don’t mind any of them.
Well the first suggestion that the debate may not be as “decided” as you would like us to think, Brooke, is when one side turns to using cartoons to make generalizations instead of stating cogent arguments.
Just because over 90% of parents decide to vaccinate their children does not imply that we should all lose the right to informed consent to medical procedures which carry with them the risk of serious permanent injury and death. Your suggestion is ludicrous.
Readers might also be interested to know that recent survey studies have found that pediatricians and specialists actually use a modified vaccination schedule with their own children more often than us regular parents. They opt out of certain vaccines more often, and they delay MMR more often, specifically stating concerns about vaccine safety. Now why would that be Brooke?
“Begging the question” logical fallacy.
Citation please? Which “recent survey studies”?
And how on earth does SB 277 violate informed consent? According to my reading, parents still get a choice in whether their kids get the vaccine. And if they choose yes, the doctor is still required to make sure they are properly informed. How does SB 277 change either of these things?
C O E R C I O N!
In what way? The bill specifically gives parents the option to not vaccinate.
Education is essential! The option is window dressing only!
Those being made to choose will do so under duress, intimidation, oppression and FORCE, all of which define coercion and are VIOLATIONS of the Nuremberg Code and ‘informed consent!’
I agree that education is essential. And homeschooling is an option. Parents have the choice to not vaccinate, just like I have the choice to not get a driver’s licence – I just don’t get to participate in public roads if I don’t. Nobody is coercing me into having a licence, and nobody is coercing anyone into getting their kids vaccinated. You have a choice, and your kids gets an education either way. No force.
Apples, oranges and pointless platitudes!
Should you desire the quality of life indicative of this country, you likely will need to get a drivers licence, which for the most part, does NOT come with harmful or fatal side effects!
You missed where I said that ‘such’ stated option is window dressing!
Making it difficult for a child to get an education is a coercive act!
Your next step in this fundamental lesson would be to look up the definition of coercion!
It is a safety standard. I’m not allowed to smear my kid with poop and send him to school, even if I sprayed some Febreeze to cover the smell. It’s a safety hazard, and we have standards.
What about the other side? I get that you don’t want the itty bitty risk associated with vaccines. What if I don’t want the much larger risk of sending my kids to under-vaccinated schools? Doesn’t that force me into a choice between risk of “harmful or fatal” effects and sending my kid to school? I think it does, which makes it difficult. Which, according to your definition, is a “coercive act”. Bringing your logic full circle, this means that you are violating my informed consent.
See my point? There is risk either way. And either way someone has to make difficult decisions. That isn’t coercion, or violation of informed consent. It’s how civilized people set boundaries and standards for public goods.
We’ve always been at risk from the unseen, unknown, long before electron microscopes!
And now you equate ridiculous ‘child abuse’ to non vax in order to solicit your preposterous paranoid and phobic propaganda!
You’re the germaphobe! You and yours can don the hazmat fashions, over use the sanitizer and the antibiotics.
I’ll continue to allow my grandkids to eat a healthy amount of good clean soil! 😉
Bend, twist, fold, staple and mutilate! It’s coercion!
Wow. Can you hear how dramatic you are being? You are arguing straw men. I don’t want to abuse kids, overuse x, wear suits etc.
My point is about safety standards. I’m not a “germaphobe”, I just don’t like the idea of my kids being sick, crippled, or dead. I don’t want your kids in any of those states either. We have an incredibly safe and effective way drastically lower the chances of that happening.
You have a choice, and it is exactly the same choice that the parents in under-vaccinated school districts face now: Do I accept this health risk associated with school, or do I not participate? That isn’t coercion.
The choice for many includes intimidation and duress which IS coercion and violates informed consent. Intimidation [even intimidation] is a coercive act when it comes to medical tyranny.
It IS coercion! I don’t do the fallacy b.s., so no! No strawmen from me!
You became dramatic when you spoke of smearing poop on your child merely to make a pointless point!
Oh, I see. You say they aren’t strawmen, so therefore they aren’t. I guess that means I was actually taking the positions I said I wasn’t, because you said I was and you are really smart.
And I see it is coercion. Not because of any reasons you’ve given, but because you said so. Repeatedly. In bold and capitals. And you are really smart.
Got it.
By George, I think you’ve got it!
However, only to set you consistent with dictionaries and us ‘smart people’, it’s coercion because the definition of ‘coercion’ matches the act being implemented by Pan, et al.
BTW, should I want to discuss Latin philosophies, I wouldn’t waste my time doing so in commentary regarding ‘coercive, mandatory and FORCED’ vax!
“Latin philosophies”? What on earth are you talking about?
Back to University for you!
Been there. The didn’t offer any courses in “What suz norkan is talking about”
Seriously, you are so busy trying to sound clever and superior that I am having a hard time even telling *what* you are talking about, much less any kind of reasoning you might have.
I’m talking about philosophy and your love of latin logical fallacies!
You’re having a hard time because you’re naive, unsophisticated and uneducated!
Logic isn’t philosophy. And it isn’t Latin. I happen to have education specifically in formal logic.
Your arrogance is so depressing.
Let me give you a hint, Suz. Try skipping out on your taxes claiming that because you go to prison for non-payment, you pay them only under duress, intimidation, and oppression. Just doesn’t work that way.
Unlike the naive and unsophisticated, I KNOW why I pay taxes.
However, I may think twice if doing so came with even the slightest risk of severe, permanent disability OR DEATH for myself or loved ones!
There is the “slightest risk of”
– The mail truck delivering your tax forms hitting an electric pole and setting your house on fire.
– Dying in a traffic accident on the way to the tax preparer
– Running over your kid in the driveway on the way back
– etc.
There is always risk, in everything. Small risk is always present, and it doesn’t absolve us from public standards or responsibilities.
Petty, purposeless and pathetic platitudes!
Nice comeback. Is this the point of the conversation where we agree to meet at the monkey bars during recess for a shoving match?
My monkey bar days are long gone! Now my days are spent teaching the naive like you, about coercive acts of medical terrorism!
So getting vaccinated is now akin to paying taxes? Wow. Just wow. We really have become 1984.
I’ve always felt like there needed to be a more formal name for the logical fallacy of intentionally misrepresenting or over-extrapolating someones example or analogy. “Straw man” just never seemed to cut it.
Logical fallacies are illogical and a waste of debate time for those of us who are logical!
Greatest. Anti-vax. Quote. Ever.
“Logical fallacies are illogical”
Yeah! I like that one almost as much as my ‘anyone who calls someone who isn’t a liar, a liar, is a liar!’ 😉
Although neither can hardly be considered ‘anti-vax quotes!’
??
‘Ya had to be there, newb!
Your argument is one of the biggest fallacies being promoted by Pan and Allen, that this bill does not force parents to vaccinate their children. Denying children access to public and private school if they are not vaccinated with every single shot listed in the bill does exactly that, it forces them to either vaccinate their children, homeschool, or leave the state. Some with the financial means might be able to homeschool or move, but for most these will not be options.
This is coercion plain and simple, you can pretend it is not if that makes you feel better about yourself.
It’s funny how pro-vaccine folks are constantly demanding citations, but never seem to provide them when making their own arguments…if they are even making arguments at all.
Are you asking for citations because you find my claims hard to believe? Guess what? For a vaccine safety advocate such as myself, this is not surprising at all, in fact this is exactly what we would predict since pediatricians and specialists are more likely to understand what we already have learned through our studies…and what you will likely never grasp.
Vaccination practices among physicians and their children
http://file.scirp.org/html/22932.html
“When asked about vaccinating a future child, a significant proportion of respondents would deviate from CDC guidelines, specialists more than general pediatricians (21% vs 9%). […] Specialists were more likely to postpone MMR vaccination. Safety was listed by both groups as the most common reason for altering the recommended immunization schedule. Until 2009, general pediatricians and pediatric specialists have largely adhered to ACIP recommendations, but due to vaccine safety and other concerns, both groups, albeit a higher percentage of specialists, reported greater numbers willing to diverge from these recommendations.”
“41 [pediatric] generalists (9.9%) and 29 specialists (21%) reported they would skip at least one vaccine for their future child.”
Physicians who do and do not recommend children get all vaccinations.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18726813
“Eleven percent of the physicians included in the analysis did not recommend to parents that children receive all available vaccines.”
“Further investigation of physicians’ concerns about vaccine safety is needed to improve health communications directed toward health care providers.”
“it forces them to either vaccinate their children, homeschool, or leave the state”
2/3 of those options are not vaccinating. So it isn’t forced. Which means informed consent is not violated. Inconvenient? Yes. So is getting around without a drivers licence. But nobody is forcing me to get one – they just won’t let me on the public roads until I demonstrate I’m a low enough safety risk. That isn’t coercion. It’s just a safety threshold for participating in a public good.
I asked for the citations because I don’t believe random claims I see on the internet, and this is a great example. Setting aside the fact that your 1st study is from a zero-impact open journal, it confirms what advocates for SB 277 have been saying. The overwhelming majority of professionals and professional organizations support vaccination. The avg acceptance for each vaccine in that study is about 99%. And that is including the legitimate (and overtly free-rider) reasons many gave for not being part of that 99%.
Your 2nd study was just an abstract and I couldn’t find the rest. It’s also 7 years old, which is hardly “recent”.
You’re cherry picking man. It’s no different than creationists frantically pointing to their tiny collection of crank biologists who deny evolution. This doesn’t change the fact that there is overwhelming scientific consensus on the safety and efficacy of vaccines.
Forces one to do A, B or C!’ C O E R C I O N!
Except there isn’t force. You have a choice – just like, in a world without SB 277, I have the choice to remove my kid from a school district full of under-vaccinated kids. Even if that is unfair, inconvenient, difficult, stressful, and a huge financial hardship, I still have that choice. So it isn’t coercion, either way.
Society sets standards for public goods. That is just reality.
For the sake of me wasting more time on the definition of coercion and your misinterpretation that only PHYSICAL force applies, please look it up for yourself so we can end the needless banter.
The reality is that sb 277 [at this time] remains to be a coercive act and violates Nuremberg Code of Medical Informed Consent!
You don’t need to restate your conclusion in bold or capitals anymore. I get it. I’m asking for your reasoning, not your conclusion.
I wasn’t saying that coercion has to be physical. SB 277 doesn’t involve force of any kind. You have a choice, and nobody is going to force you to get vaccinated in any way if you don’t want to. They only thing it says is that you must meet certain safety standards if you want to participate in these collective institutions. Emphasis on the “if”. You don’t have to, just like I don’t have to drive on public roads if I’m not comfortable with the increased risk in mugging or car accident associated with annual trips to the DMV or smog testing. Do you consider that coercion as well?
More unjustified and infantile fear mongering!
Read the definition of coercion or ask one who has ever been COERCED into anything!
I’ve read the definition.
Do you consider requiring drivers licences coercion?
If you’d have understood, you wouldn’t have made such a ridiculous inquiry!
Do you consider requiring drivers licences coercion?
Do I consider your acts to be harassing intimidation?
No.
Do you consider requiring drivers licences coercion?
Do you feel intimidation will get one to do what you want them to do, against their will?
Okay, I’ll take that as conceding the point.
This is a serious issue Suz, with people’s lives literally depending on the choices (both personal and policy) that are made over vaccination. And yet you are prancing around dodging questions, throwing insults, refusing to outline your reasoning, childishly repeating unsubstantiated points, openly mocking the principles of logic and evidence, and generally just getting off on stroking your own ego and feeling superior.
That’s disgusting. I’m disengaging.
Pffft! Make up your mind! ‘Life or death’ or ‘no different than getting a drivers license!’
I disagree! I engage in none of the immature act which you attempt to insult me with.
You disengage all you like, which means that you are conceding, darlin’! I have NOT nor do I plan to!
Hey, Suz, have you run your theories of Nuremberg by any international lawyers? They must need a good laugh now and then.
That’s where I got my data, darlin’! Me laughing > 😉
Got a link to genuine lawyers’ saying vaccinations are against international law? Or is that your special interpretation of their information?
You know I have no respect for the waste of time that is otherwise called ‘citation stalemate and evidence pissing matches!’
‘Seek and ye shall find’ Laz!
Yeah Laz, she doesn’t have time for logic or evidence. She’s too busy seeking the truth man!
You should try it. It’s easy to tell when you’ve found the truth, because it will confirm what you already believe and make you feel really smart and superior. Therefore truth.
Wrongo Bonzo! I’ve had my share of ‘book smart learnin’! 😉
Anyone who characterizes being forced to either homeschool their children or leave the state as “inconvenient”…seriously has their head up their arse. Sorry, there just isn’t a nice way to say that.
You would make a great politician. You yammer about how the majority of pediatricians follow vaccine recommendations…and completely ignore my entire point…that pediatricians follow the recommended schedule less often than the general population. Why do you suppose that is? You still have not answered my question.
Then you complain that one study wasn’t recent enough (so I guess the other study is recent enough for you?). In the grand scheme of things 2008 is fairly recent, but do you really think that if they did that same survey now they would find a higher rate of compliance amongst pediatricians? Remember that Gardasil was approved in 2008…I don’t think being more recent is going to work in favor of the pro-vaccine ideologues.
You are equivocating over “inconvenient” in order to dodge my point.
Your question is unanswerable, because you haven’t established the premise. I don’t “suppose that is” in the first place, because you cited one study that could actually be examined, and it showed the opposite of your claim. The doctors were more likely to vaccinate than the general public.
I mentioned the date because you called it “recent”, which is a little misleading. Gardasil was approved in 2006 fyi.
You are cherry picking. And of the cherries you picked, one refuted your claim and the other was unverifiable. Worse, both are self-selecting opinion surveys of working doctors. These aren’t the people who study vaccine safety and efficacy. So even if your links were legitimate, Science would still trump Opinion – even expert opinion.
Now you are just straight out lying. The two studies I cited both found that pediatricians use a modified vaccination schedule, or opt out of certain vaccines, more often than the general public. The rate of exemptions is below 2%, and both studies rates of non-compliance among pediatricians and specialists that were much higher than that.
Are you number-dyslexic?
A picture is worth a thousand words.
Again it is shown that those quickest to criticize vaccination are the quickest to prove their ignorance of it.
Thank you, Stephanie — good article!
This is the most important issue. It is not really about vaccines, but about removing personal autonomy and liberty. If this comes to pass, we are all in grave danger. It mandates accepting *whatever* being shoved into the bodies of our children and ourselves with no accountability – and indeed, there is no need for accountability when the victims are maimed or dead. Those who think it is about vaccines have great faith in something that is real only in their minds – ideas of science and integrity, both of which are absent on the part of those pushing this agenda. I will be voting according to this issue, but it will be difficult because it likely means abandoning the issue of reproductive choice. I want to know which candidates support freedom of religion and personal belief, and I will choose accordingly. Unfortunately, they may be against the freedom to choose abortion. While women can find other ways, though with difficulty, nobody can undo having “vaccines” forced upon them against their will. I urge everyone to vote their beliefs!
It is about vaccines, and only vaccines.
Otherwise, where was the outrage over mandatory seatbelts?
It’s ALSO about medical tyranny!
Last I knew seat belts went on the outside while vaccines…well you get the point. If we don’t own our bodies, well then, what do we own?
There is one particular thing that I do not understand in this American debate on mandatory vaccination: WHY pharma corporations and government agencies are not obliged too to make public ALL studies, the positive and negative ones, ALL primary data, methodologies a.s.o.
IF gov’s & pharma industry & tstae agency intention is genuine and they really care for the good of people, the very first move would be to comply with the directives & recommendations of their own regulating bodies.
Afterwards, the science community can check, re-check and MUST reproduce and replicate ( according to the case) the published results … and finally you can base a law on real science. Every parent ( either pro or against vaccines) will be able to read, ask, search. And the debate will be over.
IF that intention has nothing to do with the good care for people .. well … the state / agencies , pharma do not choose to disclose ALL research results for independent review, the y will use any possible way to avoid this complete disclosure. A rudimentary logic suggests that, in this case, the aim of mass compulsory vaccination is a part of some other plan, not a plan linked to health care for people. The very next logical step will be to get away the right of parents to refuse psychiatric treatments for their kids. Or .. this seems to me the logical next step to take in case the actual bill ( SB277 & similar in other states) is part of a larger plan developed to fulfill an intention that has nothing to do with science and the good of people 🙂
WHO recommendation is:
” 14 APRIL 2015 | GENEVA – WHO today issued a public statement calling for the disclosure of results from clinical trials for medical products, whatever the result. The move aims to ensure that decisions related to the safety and efficacy of vaccines, drugs and medical devices for use by populations are supported by the best available evidence.
“Our intention is to promote the sharing of scientific knowledge in order to advance public health,” said Dr Marie-Paule Kieny, WHO Assistant Director-General for Health Systems and Innovation. “It underpins the principal goal of medical research: to serve the betterment of humanity.”
“Failure to publicly disclose trial results engenders misinformation, leading to skewed priorities for both R&D and public health interventions,” said Dr Kieny. “It creates indirect costs for public and private entities, including patients themselves, who pay for suboptimal or harmful treatments.”
Unreported trials lead to misinformation
For example, in a study that analysed reporting from large clinical trials (more than 500 participants) registered on ClinicalTrials.gov and completed by 2009, 23% had no results reported. These unreported trials included nearly 300 000 participants. Among clinical trials of vaccines against 5 diseases registered in a variety of databases between 2006-2012, only 29% had been published in a peer-reviewed journal by the WHO recommended deadline of 24 months following study completion.
“We need the collaboration of all these actors to enforce transparency in their jurisdictions in order to increase the benefits and decrease the risks for patients, clinical trial volunteers and the general public,” concluded Dr Kieny.” http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/notes/2015/medical-research-transparency/en/
no on sb277…my body, my choice. freedom for all medical procedures
Fine. Just, no public school. (You might check up on Typhoid Mary, though—your basic principal just isn’t in agreement with case law.)
And the above, boys and girls, is the essence of intimidation, duress, oppression, violation of the Nuremberg Code on informed consent, and medical terrorism!
And it’s just the beginning!
Typhoid Mary, martyr. OK, whatever, and good luck with that.
Paranoid propagandist! You also Laz! Good luck with that!
Why is anyone surprised by this anymore? We will keep getting more and more
mandates because Big Pharma is relentlessly pushing for these. They
make profits with zero liability because Congress gave them complete
protection in 1986. Let’s try to repeal this law, otherwise our rights
will continue to go up in smoke!
Protect kids, not drug makers! Sign/share
petitions.moveon.org/sign/repeal-immunity-for-drug
facebook.com/pages/Repeal-The-National-Childhood-Vaccine-Injury-Act-of-1986/693229134132332
The law is corrupt and immoral. Likes are good, but we need the signatures. Thank you!
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